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re: Karine and Tyce projects...what I think...

Posted by:
ashkent7 03:41 pm MST 02/21/17
In reply to: Karine and Tyce projects...what I think... - Jacqueline 11:29 am MST 02/21/17

You know I can a rock and hard place for some. I love Jim without a doubt...without his music something would be severely lacking because for pretty much everyone here there is nothing can touch what he does. There are things out there that sound a bit Steinmanesque but nothing is exactly what Jim has produced over the years (and the Bat musical has proved that no one ever writes with the total liquidity that he does, where every single song fits into the overall narrative he has created over the last 50 years plus), so it is always good to see other people's takes on his music. Some have worked, others haven't.

For me, I am a lot more torn about the Tyce album than Karine's. I like some of what I've heard on the Tyce samples...it could fit with a style quite close to Jim's in the fact it seems to have thunder about it. The album cover...it's better than a lot of album covers these days, but compared to Meat's Braver which has so much meaning and depth built in, its a little bit like a second hand car. I'm interested to hear some of the versions off that album. Timing-wise...I know about what i know and album releases isn't my thing so i don't know how long these things take, but there seemed to be a lot of stalling "because of the cover". Whether that was just stalling, I don't know. Some would say that it is the right time for more releases of Jim's songs...but as you have said, this is Jim's time, his musical, his achievement and his dream. Meat got that. Meat also got that while promoting Braver Than We Are he could get plugs in for the musical and give people who otherwise wouldn't have heard about it so early on a little shove in the right direction. When he appeared at the launch, it was all about Jim. He didn't stand for ten minutes talking about his album - even though it is really his and Jim's - it maybe got a very brief mention in passing but everything he said, everything he plugged and everything he alluded to was about the Musical and about Jim's hard slog to get it there.

Karine's album...again, as much as i love new takes on the songs...I really don't feel anything good for this. Maybe long ago and far away it could have been so much better than it sounds today. (Hmm, that sounds familiar.) The demo of Braver from years back I liked because at one point it was the only version out there in any decent context. Then i found the Tanz version and that is something else entirely. I don't think syth/dance music brings out the best, and listening to the clip of the new version it looks like that style has been stuck with for better or worse. But in that clip, it sounds like the words are out of time with the music because of the staggered notes on bits like "we always seem". The seem has a note change that just sounds wrong. But there are all the comments of how this is the real Braver and so much better than the "other" version. I know there were people who couldn't get away with Meat's album for one reason or another. I have had that album on in my car since it's release, that's about 30 minutes every week day, some on weekends. i don't feel the need to take it out yet. My five year old gets in and asks when Going All The Way is coming on...pretty much the same I did as a five year old when my dad was playing Bat and Dead Ringer albums. Going All The Way, Braver Than We Are...whatever you want to call it...is an absolute masterpiece of a song, and if i am honest with myself, I don't see any of the new versions sitting in my heart the way Meat's does. Some said the ending was too long...There are so many small segment's of Jim's songs (the choral break and instrumental of Anything For Love, the guitar solo of Bat, the instrumental midsections of Frying Pan and Objects from Bat 2) that i actually have to rewind and play again a few times just to feel satisfied. The ending of Going All The Way gives me that without having to rewind because it's all there, and that is something that could only come from Jim. Lord of excess and all. Karine's version for me doesn't touch what has already been done - I'll reserve judgement on anything beyond that until I hear it but my expectations aren't especially high. The whole thing about pushing back the release because people can't download because they are at the musical...I don't get it. If people wanted it they would download it the next day..or the day after. There doesn't need to be a three week gap without some other reason. That's the beauty of downloads...you can do them anywhere at any time. And don't get me started on the cover. I remember when the teaser for Braver Than We Are came out and it was the picture of Jim's jacket. Some were vocal in saying they were glad that didn't end up being the cover. That's the thought that instantly came into my mind when i saw that. It looks like someone has given a toddler a book of Steinman scenes and told them to cut and paste their favourite pictures onto a square. The last time i saw a cover like that a warm up act was selling them from a suitcase after another performer's gig.

Well that ends my rant...rather unexpected one actually as i only expected to write a couple of paragraphs...but you know, things just sometimes grow. I don't think there is any reason for you to not express your opinion, like everyone else is entitled to, and you certainly shouldn't have any need to apologize for putting first the person who everyone on here claims to consider the most important person in all of this.

> Until now, I've remained very quiet about the "tribute"
> projects surrounding Jim Steinman - specifically Karine
> Hannah's Renegade Angel (directly lifting a title that
> belongs to Jim...not to mention the cover with the
> "moonlight shining through" and the wolf with the red
> rose...where is the creativity? Why not call it
> "Handgrenade Angel" - at least that reflects the way the
> songs are blown to bits) and the Tyce Green Hero project.
> For what it's worth, I think Tyce is a nice, young guy
> with a great voice. I think he's been mislead and dragged
> along by the ambition of others. But that's my opinion.
>
> To be honest, these self proclaimed "tributes" didn't
> especially bother me until lately. The timing really
> doesn't sit well with me and I'll say it flatly - it seems
> like they are in it for themselves and trying to horn in
> on Jim's success while dampening his victory!! They may
> not be hoping for riches and fame but they are definitely
> trying to take advantage with the timing.
>
> "Renegade Angel" - made the post below on
> Facebook...hahaha - belly laugh of the decade - in the
> comments she responds to someone saying her clip sounds
> better than the Steinman/Rinkoff version with "That's what
> we like to hear!!" That was the exact kind of disrespect
> to Jim's children that caused ties to be severed in the
> first place. Here is the post explaining why they moved
> the release date:
>
> "Steinmaniacs!
> The first single from the album Renegade Angel starring
> Karine Hannah "Braver Than We Are" will now be released on
> March 4th not Feb 17 as previously announced due to most
> people being in Manchester for the Bat Out Of Hell musical
> and not being able to download it at the time. So for
> maximum exposure we've put it back a couple of weeks... So
> that's the bad news out of the way, here's a sneak peak at
> the brand new single BRAVER THAN WE ARE!!!"
>
> Why are they calling out to Jim's fanbase? Bug off. Find
> your own fans. Or, go bother Celine Dion fans -- maybe
> they'll be happy to see you!
>
> Then the Tyce "Hero" group, posting all over Jim's
> Facebook page and on this message board on the opening
> days of Bat in Manchester!!! Can't they let Jim and his
> fans have even a few days to bask in the glory of the Bat
> Musical?? Leave Jim's page alone long enough for his fans
> to enjoy talking about Bat and him? The answer is "NO"
> because they see timing as everything. I don't buy the
> "we're just hoping to make 2017 a SteinYear." Newsflash,
> Jim doesn't need your help!! The ego!! This is no
> different than Steve Steinman. Yes, I take that back,
> it's worse -- because they are trying their best to act
> like they not only have Jim's consent -- they want it to
> seem like they have his cooperation and collaboration. The
> Tyce album write up, in case you haven't seen, uses some
> old Jim quotes out of context to maximum effect. The
> cover! That's the best cover Boris and Julie could come
> up with? A magic mirror that turns people into heroic
> creatures by stripping off their top? Wow.
>
> This is Jim's time. Jim's glory. This is not just a
> "tribute" - they want something - even if it's just
> attention for their project. I didn't want to stay silent
> any longer. Sorry. Honestly, if they could have just
> backed off for a few weeks, let the Bat Musical bask in
> the glow of it's success and stopped posting "with Jim
> Steinman" (they are not "with" him, I can assure you) all
> over Facebook, I might not have gone on this rant. But,
> hey ho...I'm protective of Jim and I won't apologize for
> that.
>


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Previous: re: Karine and Tyce projects...what I think... - Wei 02:10 am MST 02/22/17
Next: re: Karine and Tyce projects...what I think... - Infinite_Victims 02:01 pm MST 02/21/17

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